VS CCP

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

Read it all here!:

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/sorry-america-china-not-going-c...

I engaged in a private experimental "psy op" aimed at matching the force of the online CCP troll network know as the 50 cent Army/Party, more here (and elsewhere in recent news):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

If you frequent news discussions, you very well may have run into one of them already. Their usually nonsensical and uninterpretable posts are made up through numbers and tenacity, and they act as a pervasive, if not stubborn, mouthpiece for the Chinese Communist Party.

How does one deal with such a force?

Well read on and watch how I stick it to them

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

Disclaimer: I more or les initiated this on my own, without the permission or support of my government (as if I fucking need it). This is all me. Don't bother trying to tie this back to CIA/NSA (although it would be all the more hilarious if you did)

While some of the language used in some posts is deragatory, it was not intended for such language to be put there, and was only used as a humorous counter-measure to the incessant trolling nature of some of the posters. Apologies in advance if you're offended, no harm intended.

Second, I will add that personal background information stated in the posts is accurate. I am a US citizen born and raised in the Midwest, with a high degree of exposure to cultures and ethnicities, and an extensive background in research on topics such as philosophy, history, news and current events, military related topics, and more. I also extensively use "cultural" references such as movies, music, and games, in a way to deliver my own brand of message to the CCP's mouthpieces. I hope this adds to the enjoyment of reading this discussion.

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

Honestly, the article itself is mostly irrelevant here. It's basically more mouthpiece nonsense not worth going over in detail. The author, one Chen Dingding, is a professor for the University of Macau, and has studied at the University of Chicago. It's entirely likely that he himself has engaged in some of the posts under assumed names.

One set of reading material I would recommend for background to the topic would be the works of Antony C. Sutton, particularly the Wall Street Series, the Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development Series, and America's Secret Establishment (especially Memorandum # 5 Angola and China). They present useful ideas that go against not only established framework of the West-China polemic, but that of interpretation of modern history, including US history since the 19th century, WWII, the Cold War, and more. Most of these works are freely available online, whether on html sites or in pdf. I encourage all readers to seek these materials out and verse yourselves in them.

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

It started with these posts (all original text, no corrections made):

"Who here is from the 50 cent army? I have a message for you"

"Owl yr bas r blong 2 US"

The meme itself is commonly known enough. The Owl is a coded reference to the Egregroire that came with the early incarnation of POD. I refer to it primarilly in jest however.

A fuller version of the "message" which was posted after a the majority of activity goes like this:

So yes, I'm basically trolling China's trollers, in order to get a rise out of the CCP, which they can do nothing about, and rather than spew out the things they usuaully do, its apparent that it doesn't work on me. Much of the things I'm saying they can't even look at or discuss on their own internet, so how are they going to battle me on it that way? You can't go full on until you take down Golden Shield

Lets say a larger percentage of non-Chinese nationals began to think even remotely this way, China's whole internet "PR" campaign would be in shambles. They would merely be left with hacking, which by the way, they are permitted to get away with by choice on our part

Hacking is generally your alternate, and more modern, way of absorbing our technology, which we have given to you from the start in a way to suit our needs. Just as we have done before with other great powers. Regardless of recent advances and new mediums, the strategy is still the same

China is built up to a superpower because the US and West wants it to be. Why? Because it controls both China, and the people in the West. Those who do this practiced this for centuries. China think it has a sneaky plan to overtake the West. The West had a sneakier plan all along, by rigging a game that China cannot win.

So, CCP, you can't keep power if you let down Golden Shield. However, you also cannot inform your people about this ideas if you keep Golden Shield. You are stuck.

My entire presence here is designed to agitate CCP. I did this on my own. It has nothing to do with my government or its policy. I told a friend that I was going to do that, and I did.

The results show, Chinese trolls flocked to me immediately, and I met each one in kind according to their own, and still will. And nowhere did they address the finer points that imply this other paradigm.

The West-China dialectic will be over before it could barely begin. Had there not been people like me, perhaps it really could drag on for decades. But it wont.

What the West is now doing to Putin, they can do to you with ease, CCP. You are thinking you are holding an economic trump card while you wait to modernize your military. We've already been giving you anything that actually empowers your military. Or if you didn't get it from us, you got it from Russia. Well Russia got it from us too, that's why they can be dealt with so easily right now.

You don't have time. Your best bet is to just step down entirely, give your people full autonomy.

Because even if you don't, the West will find a way to take it from you. Hard way or Soft way, you're still going to be out of power, and your country will be just fine.

While in articles like these, your previous strategy may have been something like bombaring comments or giving yourself likes and thumbs up, not enough to say anything substantial, but just enough to direct attention.

What if you couldn't do that anymore, 50 cent army? Now that at least one of you has read what I have said, eventually it will get back to your top brass. They'll have to rethink things, you may all be out of jobs. How do you feel about that?

What I have done with this article, I could have done with any, and while this is more or less symbolic in this case, the effect is still real. You've lost the information war.

Is this a better explanation yet? Will you Chinese netizens please bring this back to your superiors?

As I've said, I steered this discussion how I wanted, and will continue to do so. your posters now have to address me on my terms.

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

This bulk message was released only after 2 days of steady posting, where I began to be the #1 poster. Discussion covered a range of issues, including economic and military policy, history, sociology, philosophy, and of course not without some incindiary words. Read on for some highlights

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

Here are three early posts of mine, which quickly became misunderstood:

1)

To your first point, China doesn't have the equivalency of something like the Rothschilds, or their strategies which have been practiced since back when China was still in the Qing dynasty right before they really fell behind the West. Additionally, research could suggest that the very same strategies are tacitly behind Western policy towards China. If you don't know, you better catch up.

Second, yes, I have relatives who have spent years travelling, and even more years living, abroad, making a concerted effort to see and understand where they go, and they're back and haven't disregarded their roots here.

You'd be surprised how internationally minded some Americans can be. I happen to have grown up in what may be one of the most diverse municipalities in the US, and have grown up with a significant exposure to Chinese culture. Being international isn't just about travelling and settling.

2)

Furthermore, if China is so "international" now, then translate that to current diplomacy, how do you reconcile that with the ongoing South China Sea conflict? How about the recent border tension with India? Can they import culture? Maybe cheesy American movies? With time travel reference banned in China, would theybe able to watch Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure? Could they get it? Would you say that filial piety is still ingrained in China? If so, can this be reconciled with interacial mixing with cultures not based on filial piety? Why is development in Tibet and Xinjiang driven by Han migration rather than by the people actually from there? Do these trends work in reverse, and if so, can you show me?

3)

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to Western policy, there's hardly anything new you can tell me about it. Please don't confuse things and assume I am supportive of it.

When it comes to the the history of the native Americans and the US, again, you're preaching to the choir, I have have some Ojibwe blood. I never said anything about concentration camps and deportation. I'm saying Han migration into those regions is huge, can you dispute that?

China's lack of military response is more out of inability than gestures of goodwill. With their current purge, how well do you think they could mobilize if they wanted to? They are still severely outclassed militarily and will be so for quite some time. They're essentially the next Soviet Union to play cold war style games with.

What it sounds like this response is, is a common thing one might see from Chinese, something to the effect of that you're no better. So ok, what if I agree? Then what? Did you invalidate anything else I was saying?

Commentary:

I'll emphasize a few things. The first post, along with Sutton's material, should depict the difference between how the Western Elite do things and how China does things now, and who's playing in whose hands. This also is the basis for answering military related questions, as the basis of PLA rests on technology and aid given by the West. Response to my posts, in that thread and elsewhere, neglect the recent purges within the CCP, especially that of the military which in recent news has hit high up in the chain of command. No poster acknowledges this when I raise it as an issue. Its important because, as I state elsewhere, the weapons and technology the PLA has (again provided by largely "Western" sources) are essentially meaningless and inapplicable without a functioning chain of command.

In the second post, I introduce the topic of many events in recent news, pertaining to the antagonistic policies of CCP towards its neighbors, again which is not directly addressed by any further responses.

The "cultural" perspective in a lighthearded context is later reverberated through a stream of references undecipherable to the average Chinese national (examples include movies such as Bloodsport, Cheech and Chong's Up in Smoke, Wayne's World, Delta Force, Anime's such as City Hunter, Dragon Ball Z, Vampire Hunter D, and Samurai Champloo, Oldskool Jungle music and (Japanese) 80's Funk, and a number of silly memes), and are generally lost on many reader's ears.

On a serous note though, the cultural perspective comes into play in a number of posts later. Unsurprisingly I get berated later, over misinterpretation of my use of the words "development" and "huge".

To be clear, the summary my thoughts on that topic are this: Biologically and Ecologically speaking, monocultures are not good, and I believe a diversity of peoples is more important to protect and uphold than a monoculture. However, the posters miss this entirely, and instead bog down on sociological perspectives instead, using history to justify many of their prejudiced views. A huge irony is that when speaking about Chinese history, a number of glaring errors and misuderstandings show directly from the Chinese posters themselves, including false lengths of dynasties or other historical bits. Back to diversity, it a position I cite throughout only to be mislabeled as a racist by posters who themselves have publicly viewable racist comments in other discussions. When I raise the monoculture issue, noone response without trying to change it from a biological/ecological issue into a sociological one, which is irrelevant. Lastly a number of posts degenerated into some very basic America bashing, where their earlier points failed. Notice I never hit back in "defense" of American policy. Rather than discuss the current and here and now, commenters then often descend into historical and irrelevent backdrops, along the lines of 3,000 yeas ago you did, 5,000 years ago we were this, etc.

Continuously here and onward, I defy the categories that the trollers target by, vexing them all the way.

Read on for some more highlights.

 

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

Greatest highlights are from Natural Order, Timur, Maul fores, Jukawa, Peggy Sue, Han Fei Zi, and others, ranging from semi serious topics (that I didn't care to get into) to downright silly troll stuff.

Its funny how on one hand some posters will want to hold you to a standard, while others along the periphery break that standard and force you to break that standard in talking further. I did it my way and had fun, varying my tone and content as I went along. There was no need to treat the article discussion as a serious matter, why? Look at the most upvoted post:

4567654 • 3 days ago

Ever hear that a so-called China expert is an oxy-moron? It's these same experts that tell Obama how to deal with China and it has resulted in the worst Sino-US relations since the Cold War. Obama clearly got China wrong by the advice of so-called experts.

Really? With 70 upvotes, this is the first thing that will appear to people who have the posts set on "Sort By Best" setting? Where did they all come from? If you see that, and the other posts and posters that showed, is it any wonder why there was an expectation that the discussion would be a sham? Why then hold me to high standards as well?

This was my response to that comment: 

Are you with the 50 cent army? Will you relay my message for me?

I got 11 upvotes for it. For my 360+ plus posts I made, mostly generated to keep up with waves of troll responses, I, as of now, have 63 upvotes. What does this say? 

Who still wants to say that there is an "academic" discussion going on over there?

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Bear in mind, I make reference to Golden Shield/Great Firewall a lot. Imagine trying to debate with someone on topics that they have no access to information about. It feels paradoxical. For instance, one topic suppressed by the chinese internet police is the qigong movement that sprouted in the 1980s, culminating in the ban and persecution of Falun Gong in 1999, whch is somewhat covered well publicly. Less publicly known is the Zhong Gong movement, which at least at one time exceeded the Falun Gong, and had organized a network that at its peak was more of a credible threat to CCP than Falun Gong was. Zhong Gong leader Zhang Hongbao died under very mysterious circumstances after a tulmutuous venture of asylum here into the US after fleeing CCP. Zhang Hongbao was said to have organized a "shadow government", through his Kylin group, set to replace CCP, perhaps by violent means if necessary, and was rumored to have brought information to the US regarding secret weapons being developed, or already completed, by the PLA.

But these are things you can't talk about with 50 cent army people because most probably can't access this information now. 

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All my references to the Qigong movement were ignored. A third major Qigong movement was Yan Xin Qigong. While Li Hongzhi (Falun Gong) and Zhang Hongbao (Zhong Gong) both became enemies to the CCP and pushed into exile, Yan Xin had long been regarded as a "national treasure" and looked upon with favor by the CCP, who sent him to the US to teach in the 1990s. When the persecution of Falun Gong and Zhong Gong went underway, Yan Xin's organization slipped back into the shadows and for the most part avoided the treatment that the other groups received.

 

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

To briefly describe and summarize these groups:

Falun Gong was religious in the sense that Li Hongzhi made grandiose spiritual claims, to the effect that he was a god and that the true Buddhist doctrine rests with him. He claims to have destroyed and rebuilt the world a number of times and that he has an army of shadow clones to do his bidding. His followers are implanted with Falun Dafa wheels which act as mechanisms for energy storage and release. Falun Gon is also espouses prejudicial views, for instance they are against interaciality. Li Hongzhi moved to New York where he operates behind the scenes, using mediums such as The Epoch Times and Shen Yun to hit back at the CCP.

Zhong Gong was very much political and business-like. Zhang Hongbao created an extensive organization known as the Kylin group, which created businesses that sold Qigong and other health products, using the money to continue to build up the organization. It developed an infrastructure representing a political entity in itself with its own hierarchy and branch network covering a number of localities. This also served as the basis for the shadow government that Zhang had planned to replace CCP with. Zhang was betrayed a colleague and the movement became splintered. Some legal charges, possibly trumped upones, forced him to flee to Guam where he applied for Asylum under the G.W. Bush administration. He then stayed in the US for some years and died under a mysterious traffic accident. Following this, Zhong Gong seems to have dissolved.

Yan Xin Qigong was medically and ethically oriented, and made a sincere attempt to bring scientific legitimacy to Qigong, through a number of studies beginning with Chinese academics. Yan Xin was a doctor from the Chongqing institute of Chinese medicine. He was later "discovered", in the mid 1980s, for his miraculous healing abilities and went on to become a charismatic national celebrity, engaging thousands of Chinese in events called Qigong lectures. Perhaps more than any other Qigong master, Yan Xin enjoyed support and protection fromt he state, however, As controversy and potential political opposition regarding the Qigong movements set in, he was urged to take some time away to go into "exile" to the US. While in the US he and the YXQ organization continued to organize qigong lectures, seminars and even more studies, many of which are still being published. He has forged ties with academic entities such as UIC in Urbana Champaign and also Harvard. Interestingly as well he has been known to have met with, and given Qigong treatments to, former presidents G.H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. 

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

A good book that talks about the Qigong movements in recent Chinese history is "Qigong Fever" by David Palmer, which discusses it from a pretty impartial perspective, covering many sociopolitical elements which in many ways are the more relevant points to the average reader. For example, one may not be sympathetic to Falun Gong itself as a group, but might be appalled by the treatment of Falun Gong practitoners by the CCP, which allegedly includes secret detentions, suspension of civil rights, and in more extreme cases, organ harvesting of live practitioners. This kind of treatment evokes something out of the times when Nazis and Fascists ruled states in the mid 20th century. CCP is just another thug regime and deserves to be squashd, er, quashed.

The methodology they resort to has gone to the absurd. Please note their recent propaganda measures as an example, such as depicted by the "Document 9":

http://www.chinafile.com/document-9-chinafile-translation

This policy and others like it, can only serve to harm China itself, let alone the rest of the world, which China is increasingly demanding of a role within, a role it is subtly attempting to dictate to the rest of the world itself.

Let it be clear, "Zhong Guo" is not the middle or center of anything, nor will it ever be. China needs to learn to accept this.

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

The 50 cent army/party is a direct result of these absurd propagandist policies, and is the "brainchild" of Politburo member Liu Yunshan. Give this man the opportunity and he can be another Goebbels. If you don't believe me, just take a peek at some of the things these individuals say, not only with direct support, but at times under direct orders, from this man. You don't have to look very far, and while some of it sounds innocuous or downright idiotic, there are more than enough hawkish statements that reflect the attitudes of the military elite above them.

Don't be fooled by "soft power".

[Shrouded_Sagacity]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/18/china-reveals-its-...

Revealed!

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2899048/china-discloses-cyberw...

And not surprised!

BOH BOH BOH