The Pythagorean Order of Death and Neo-Sethianism

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:13am

J: Certainly. That is a group that I created, that I created with a few other friends of mine, after we left a forum online where we all met. The forum that we met at was an “Illuminati” themed forum and we all left it because we thought it was doing a poor job representing that theme. We decided to, as our final degree personal project, create something that might reflect it better, in our opinion, and to that end I created the Pythagorean Order of Death, after which some of the original members, some of the founding members, left because they didn’t like what I had created and wanted to do their own thing. But that was in probably 2007, 2008, and there’s been more or less a continuous web-presence for the POD since then. The material has expanded a bit, there’s been some amendments and some abridgments released since then, but there’s about 13 degrees split into about 5 different schools, or systems, and each one of those has a pdf, and then there’s the Omnibus, that’s released more or less annually, that updates an abridged version from all of them.

M: And are you able to share with us some of the tenants of the Pythagorean Order of Death?

J: Certainly. The basic tenants are, the main goal is, the mission statement is, to disseminate the information about what I call the “Atlantean Democracy” system of government, which is, in short, an alternative proposition to the document that seems to be - or one of the documents that seems to be - the motivating, driving force behind the modern, what could be called “New World Order” of the globalist faction of the Order of Death. So the Atlantean Democracy system is an attempt to create a pluralist, decentralized, min-archist version of a global government as an alternative to a global monarchy. The history of the Atlantean Democracy system is complex and partially fictional - at least, or at least partially speculative - insofar as there’s no way to prove it one way or the other, but the system as far as I’ve designed, or received or understood it to be is basically dependent also on a free-energy system of wireless electricity replacing the actual economy that we have today. So it’s kind of a pipe-dream in a sense, but maybe useful, maybe something that in 100 or 200 years could be considered a useful goal to consider.

M: And in the Pythagorean Order of Death there’s two types of individuals: the psychic conspirator and the psychic revolutionary. Who are those?

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:13am

M: This is the Aeon Byte interview, and with us we have the pleasure of being joined by Jonathan Barlow Gee. Jonathan, thank you very much for coming on the show, and how are you?

J: I’m very good, thank you very much for having me.

M: The pleasure is all ours. As we talked, I love your body of work, you’ve done such great scholarship for many years, from all these fascinating topics, your insights are engaging, they’re intriguing, really good scholarship, I think our audience will love your body of work and everything else. But before we get to that, I’d like to welcome too, the moon-dog Vance. Vance, how are you?

V: Okay, just weathering power-outages and so forth here in sunny California, but we’ll hear about spiritual power now, right?

M: Yes we will, and like I was telling you, maybe Governor Newsom needed to save some money to pay for his tab at the French Laundry, so that’s California, because we are here in the middle of a snowstorm and the power’s fine, so the spirits, the winter spirits are with us.

@00:17:00

M: So Jonathan, when I was doing all this research, I was like, god, you’re like the renaissance man of all these great topics. Your work goes back to like 2010 at least what I saw on YouTube and read some of your books and you remind me of what I like to call sort of the “golden age” of comparative mythology, back in, maybe 10 years ago, when you had Graham Hancock, […], Timothy Freake and many other researchers that were doing this fascinating work on comparative mythology, alternative archaeology, and this useful stuff that I feel has made the world better and really expanded the consciousness of humanity. So how did you get into these esoteric topics?

J: Well, it goes back as far as the late 90’s of the last millennium, the last aeon. I was in high school and bored and started reading Time-Life’s Mysteries of the Unknown series, I believe it was, in the library at high school, and that’s when I started researching these topics. After that, I just stayed with it, and I’d keep researching them today but it seems that, after a certain point, I kind of hit a peak - or a plateau - where it seemed that I had learned as much as there was to know about most of these, and then I started coming up with my own theories based on what I’d learned.

M: Great job, and for the audience, I’d definitely suggest you check out his website and his YouTube channel for so much good stuff, and we definitely want to hit on a lot of his good stuff on this show. So, why don’t we start with more or less the central theme I feel of your work, or at the very least it’s a starting point, and that is the Pythagorean Order of Death. Could you tell the audience what that is, Jonathan?

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:14am

J: Okay, well the Order of Death itself, which is a topic I got the name for from an Alex Jones documentary about the Bohemian Grove and a song by Public Image Limited with Johnny Rotten the former singer of the Sex Pistols, called “order of death” - both of them are called Order of Death -  and the way I’ve applied that term is to the group of all people who are aware that they are psychic or telepathic or to some extent clairvoyant. So in my experience, all living forms, all living beings, all life-forms, have the capacity for non-verbal, or non-physical communication. What we’re doing right now, talking on the computer, is a form of indirect communication, and I believe that animals of the more developed species also use a form of this by passing messages along from one to another over greater distances. So I believe that all life-forms are at least in potential telepathic and that this manifests itself in the higher evolved animal species as a kind of “animal internet” or a naturally living, connected network of minds. So I would call the “animal internet” ubiquitous to all living beings, but the “Order of Death” is only the people - and presumably animals, but mainly the people - who are aware that they are psychic and who use their telepathic ability and their potential for clairvoyance actively, more so than passively. Of the Order of Death, there are two types, and those are psychic conspirators who want to continue to use their telepathy to convince people who don’t believe in telepathy that there is no such thing as telepathy and that telepathy is impossible and that it doesn’t exist and that they don’t have it, in order to disempower them and to continue to use their own telepathy to essentially rule the world. And those are the “psychic conspirators” within the “Order of Death” who want to continue to use their powers over the “cult of sleep,” which are basically psychic life-forms that have been convinced they aren’t psychic or that they aren’t telepathic or that they - for whatever reason - aren’t allowed to exchange ideas mentally only. The other form of person in the Order of Death is the “psychic revolutionary” and the psychic revolutionary wants to free all minds to their full psychic potential and to reveal to everybody alive that we are all psychic and that there is a mental only ideal form of network that we all share, and we can all communicate our ideas through it. That mental network would be the Enochian Communications System, which is a whole other topic.

M: Yeah, we can definitely touch upon that topic, and yes we’ve done many shows on the idea that all humans are psychic. At some point we lost that ability or it was suppressed by the powers that be, so what you’re talking is definitely very known to the audience and very known to the ethos of this show. So, moving ahead, could you tell us who are the “neo-Sethians”?

J: The Neo-Sethians are essentially the modern “psychic conspirators” of the “order of Death” insofar as their agenda is to maintain power, but what their philosophy is is the second-coming-ism or eschatological end of days belief, which is based on 2000, at least 2000 year old prophecy - the book of Revelations - and which they essentially believe that, if they bring about these certain “signs of the times” for the “end of days” then they will be able to force a second-coming of Jesus which is highly problematic in my opinion because it involves, essentially, trying to destroy the world in order to summon god.

M; We definitely don’t want that. And for example, you mention in, I forget what documentary or what YouTube, that - let’s say somebody like - Aleister Crowley would be a “Neo-Sethian.” So, is a “neo-Sethian” by what he does, or can we say this is sort of a continuation of an ideology going down throughout history?

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:14am

M: Awesome, awesome. That’s the tag-line or the elevator pitch if Crowley was like walking in the elevator, “man we could end the world and we could all become god, and dot dot dot, we could do it this way.” And this must go back, probably, I mean - as your work has shown - and for the audience, Jonathan has tons of charts, gematria, maps, I mean, everything. It’s just a huge body of work and he puts a lot of evidence in this. Can we say this goes back to the days of Atlantis?

J: Well, again this steps into the field of speculation.

M: Right, of course.

J: Because if you were to say, for example, what do I believe about all of this? I’m not sure I believe in any of it. I want it all to be a voluntary and an optional type of philosophy that any of this exists and is relevant in anyway. Part of wanting people to wake up to their psychic potential and being a psychic revolutionary myself, means that we have to realize that all of these myths are partially fictional - or have become fictionalized in the history of them - but that they still can teach us a core, moral lesson. So for example the myth of Atlantis, whether or not that’s a 100% valid and accurate description of the past history prior to archaeological evidence for some kind of “world flood” or “great deluge,” it can still teach us a valuable moral lesson for ourselves today about the application of certain forms of technology and the ability for ourselves to destroy ourselves using that technology and why we shouldn’t pursue that.

M: Well said indeed; I would agree. For some reason I’m thinking of - I think it’s Irenaeus or Epiphaneus talking about the Ophites trying to cast - or the Cainites I believe actually - trying to cast magic to bring down heaven upon earth and destroy the world. So that definitely had some “neo-Sethian” vibe, or “original Sethian” vibe. So, Vance, from your standpoint, what do you think about what he’s saying. Of course, I’ve read many of his books, I’ve seen a lot of his videos on YouTube, but from your perspective, how does it sound?

V: Well it’s interesting. I don’t know enough about it to really form a full opinion. But one question I had was, Jonathan, why is it called the Order of Death? How does death factor into the global governance and ESP and so forth?

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:14am

J: A bit of both, definitely both. He was - Crowley himself was - I would consider him to be “neo-Sethian” insofar as he brought about a “new age” or welcomed the dawn of the “new aeon,” but I believe he did so in a way that was - in a sense - calendrically premature by about 100 years. If you look at, in the Book of the Law, his own explanation for the term Aeon, it is a period of about 2000 years, but if you look at the dates he gives for the speculated past aeons, they don’t correspond with that measurement. So if you take just the measurement itself of an Aeon, and you apply it back, then you have 2000 years before the present, the time of Jesus; 2000 years before that, roughly the time of David and Solomon and Moses; 2000 years before that perhaps Abraham or Noah, that era; and 2000 before that, you would have the beginning of the universe according to the biblical literalists. So each aeon, supposedly, there is a world-savior archetype that manifests itself, and at the present - or rather, 2000 years ago, there was a group of Gnostics called the Sethites and their main belief was in the second coming of Seth - who was the third son of Adam and Eve and the firstborn mortal human, who had both wisdom from having inherited the knowledge of the tree of good and evil as well as was mortal and lacked the fruit of immorality from the tree of life. So they believed in the Gnostic era that Seth would resurrect, or reappear or reincarnate, and when they saw Jesus they were some of the earliest converts to what we call today Christianity, because they became some of his closest followers, apostles and disciples. So now, 2000 years after that - or an Aeon after that - we have Aleister Crowley attempting to explain to people that we were about to enter this new aeon, this new age, of vast changes to our society in the same sense as had happened with Jesus, and  even Muhammad some - I think - 400 years later; the early era of the last Aeon was highly contentious. And Crowley was essentially attempting to say we were entering into that phase, the “equinox of the gods” and so forth, when one aeon changed over to another, and this is part of a natural cycle measured by the calendar. If one uses aeons instead of months on a base-12 calendar, one can use this structure to measure even the ice-age cycles. So to a certain extent, this process or this cyclical - every aeon there’s a world-savior type figure that manifests and exists is, theoretically, part of a naturally occurring cycle that also involves space-weather, the peak of the sunspot cycle, the entrance of a plasma sheet in the galactic orbit of the earth and the sun around galactic core, as well as increased asteroids, even possibly an electromagnetic pole-reversal, possible crustal displacement - all of these sorts of things that we’ve had people talking about, quote-unquote “disaster theorists” talking about, for the last 100 years or so as part of entry into this new age. I would say Crowley was attempting to - and I keep using the phrase “attempting to,” but I’m not sure to what extent he’s really succeeded - I would say that definitely he was one of the people who was trying to bring awareness to this process.

M: So, what we have is this group who is attempting some sort of apotheosis - becoming divine - by bringing about the end of the world and they work through taking advantage of certain astrological or time-cycles to gain this power. Is that basically a good summary, Jonathan?

J: 100% yeah, yeah I would say that.

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:15am

J: That’s a great question. This is something that I haven’t participated in personally, because again I see no personal benefit from it, or even social benefit, but the majority of the esoteric schools of mystery and the secret societies that practice modernly what we would traditionally consider magic, all of them involve some sort of death-centered ritual at some point in their degree system, where the individual has to undergo what they call “ego-death,” and in many of them this is forced upon them or even brought about in a surprising way which is traumatic to the ego. For example, the third degree of Blue Lodge Freemasonry nowadays involves a ritual where one is ceremonially buried alive, almost in a sense and the purpose of this - the moral of this - is to encourage people to meditate on their own mortality and to think about themselves as a finite - a temporally finite - being and to encourage them to think “well what can I do while I’m here in this lifetime that would help improve the situations that I see?” Of course, it’s all very ethically ambiguous after that, how one applies that knowledge and what they learn from that moral, but all of them do have that particular death-obsession in common. And I think that that maybe what distinguishes the cult of sleep - who are psychic but believe themselves to not be - from the Order of Death - who are those who know that they are psychic - is having meditated upon one’s own mortality and understood the magnitude of that meaning in their own personal lives.

V: Yeah. How about life-after-death? Do you think, in this system - can you use ESP to communicate with souls that have passed from the physical world, or how does that work?

J: Well again this is something that I don’t practice doing, and from my perspective it’s speculative although there’s ample evidence of people that believe that to be possible and who do use their abilities to do something similar to that at least. I’m not going to say that those people are 100% right or 100% wrong, just that, from my personal experience, it remains speculative and I can’t say certainly for sure one way or another. But it shouldn’t be ruled out at all.

V: Yeah, fair enough. You know one more thing I had, before Miguel continues with his questions, a lot of people would hear “global governance” as a “bad” thing, you know like a bunch of tyrants trying to rule people and kill off a lot of people for the benefit of the entire earth, and so forth. I assume the global governance that you’re talking about, you know - Atlantean based, is something different than the kind of “globalism” that people are talking about, or is it?

J: It’s meant to be 180° opposite from that philosophy that “globalism” has to be “evil.” And “Atlantean Democracy” as I’ve tried to line it out or lay it forth - the premise is that the global government, even if it’s inevitable, doesn’t have to impinge in anyway on the day to day free lives or rights of individuals. Civil liberties should be maximized under such a situation and in no way minimized.

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:15am

V: I agree. How about centralization versus - do you believe in layer of governments, or just one huge global government?

J: Well the “Atlantean Democracy” system basically has a very small, central government that has no army; it has no ability to enforce its dictates. Its so-called dictates would be more like philosophical recommendations. It’s meant to in a form, in a sense, entrap the people who would self-select into positions of authority over others, into this almost “American gladiators” like situation, where they then debate or even fight and kill each other to determine whose point is valid. But because they have no real say over anybody else’s personal lives in the whole world, it would just be a form of almost entertainment, to see these so-called “philosopher kings” battle it out in rhetoric and even possibly physically just to determine what they think is the right course of action for humanity when nobody has to abide by their findings.

V: Interesting. What do you think, Miguel?

M: Yeah it is very interesting. I was going to ask, and of course, when we start getting into these topics, it’s inevitable that we ask about the “reptilians,” and of course you deal with reptilians in a lot of your work. What’s your take on them?

J: Well, I believe the reptilian hind-brain is more or less an acceptable description for the rear cerebrum’s organelle’s or their sub-organs, because it occurs even in reptiles. It’s basically what a reptile’s brain looks like is the back portion of our own brains. So when one is - when a human, when a person - is using these parts of their brain more than their forebrain or their midbrain, they’re acting in a reptilian type of fashion and they’re thinking in a reptilian type of fashion. The people who kind of hide in that, or cloak themselves in that, that sensation of “fear vs. love” being the ultimate “life-line” of - those are the only two options that they see because they’re binary and they think in a simpler format of reality than mammals or people - these people are in a sense de-evolving even now from being the complete  mammals and the complete human beings that they could be. So, in the future, what I believe will happen - in one possible future - is that the people who are currently expressing this reptilian-ism now - this trait of being fear-driven and curious about other emotions but unable to understand them - these people will eventually create a sub-species of humanity that will itself continue to evolve as well. So the people that are more or less reptilians now, eventually their sub-species group will become more like avians or birds in some format - perhaps like the angels are depicted, the cherubim or depicted in ancient art, with wings symbolically; and other sub-species of humanity will also form along with them which will be more mammalian or more insectoid even as they would go up or down the evolutionary ladder, and then this will form a kind of class structure, or class-system, in a social hierarchy between these different groups of what I’ve called “animal factions,” or “animalistic factions.”

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:15am

J: Well the idea of a “great burner” is essentially that of the cultural hero or world-savior that I mentioned earlier that, every 2000 years or so, there’s this person that comes along that brings forth or ushers in all of this change, culturally and socially and spiritually even. For example, 2000 years ago, Jesus would have - could have - been considered a “great burner.” The concept of Tezcatlipoca and of Kukulkan, those were based on the same sort of premise. Noah, Ziasudra or Utnapishtim would have been one of these as well, after having preserved culture from destruction in the flood. Anyone who brings about a massive social change; even Martin Luther, during one of the periods of lower solar activity and a colder era, could be considered a form of “burner” or “great burner,” John Dee as well, again Muhammad - the Prophet of Islam - even though these are on “off-periods” in the 2000-year Aeonic cycle, they more or less still overlap with a 500 year cycle that occurs within that.

M: Do you have any speculation, Jonathan, on who might be a burner today, as we speak? I certainly don’t. I mean, I’m trying to wrack my brain. I see a lot of false prophets, that’s for sure, but no burners.

J: 100% yeah. Well the only difference is really capitalization, I think. Anybody can bring data forth and be a world-teacher, especially nowadays with the cybernetic-internet - anybody can teach the entire world anything they want. But in terms of being a world-savior, the information they teach has to be beneficial - not just to them personally, in terms of making them money, but it has to improve the situation socially for the entire world and not even just humanity, but for our equilibrium with nature and other species as well. So yeah, I think it’s likely that between Aeonic peaks there are lesser burners who are more like false prophets or proselytes or people that profiteer from making prophecies, and then at the peak of the cycle you may have someone who is more earnest, more honest and isn’t in it just for a buck, and maybe can make a larger difference, but then again maybe not.

V: How about George Soros? Arguably, no matter whether you think he’s funding good or bad causes, openly claims to be trying to influence society on a global basis, with lots of lots of influence and money. So is he a possible burner?

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:16am

M: Yeah, I’ve always… sorry go ahead.

J: And this is what I; sorry I cut out for a minute. But this entire description of reality is what I refer to as the “worse future world-line” of 3 possible future world-lines and the “better” one being a return to Atlantean Democracy. So, in this sense I believe if we continue to follow in the direction of the Protocols then we’ll end up devolving into animalistic sub-species, and if we follow Atlantean Democracy or any other alternative, then we’ll end up in a “better” world-line in the future, and things will continue to evolve and progress upward.

M: I agree with you that the whole “lizard-people” has to be, or is, people who are dominated by their base emotional, not even emotional, but predatory part. And sometimes I miss David Icke talking about the “reptile people” because I think that’s what he was talking about too, not taking them that literally if you would. Have your views changed with the strangeness of 2020 and the continued strangeness of 2021, or do you think that this is just part of the cycle?

J: Well, the way I understand the cycle is that it is peaking currently, between 2000, the year 2000 - when, on May 5th, there was an alignment of the 7 planets of antiquity - until December 21st, 2021 (or sorry, 2012 now; the past, no longer the future), when the sun and earth and galactic core all aligned as predicted by the Mayans; then that was the peak 11 year period in the sunspot cycle for the aeon, so we saw the maximum amount of solar activity then, which caused the maximum amount of essentially heat in the global atmosphere - and everybody could identify that as either global warming or as climate change, either one, because it was exacerbated by human pollution, but it wasn’t entirely caused by it. So, at this point in that cycle, we’re at a peak for space-weather activity and also I believe at a period of convergence between these time-lines. In comparison to Aleister Crowley’s concept of the “equinox of the gods,” I think that when one Aeon calendrically rolls over into the next, it corresponds to all of these astronomical or astrological type events and what you see on the earth during that period of time is usually a period of great social upheaval and a lot of philosophies forming, a lot of so-called false prophets and a lot of so-called magicians - self-proclaiming magicians - running around that, 600 or 400 years ago you wouldn’t have seen that many, and that that’s the cause. But I do believe that after the year 2029, these time-liens will begin to diverge again and the peak sunspot cycle phase will be diminishing and that what we’ve called global warming will begin to wane and descend into a cooling phase.

 M: Yeah, you mentioned too in your work, the “great burners” that happen or represent peak of the sunspot cycle. For example you talk about Ahurah-Mazda, Shamash, Ishtar. Who are these Great Burners?

Comment by Jonathan Barlow Gee on March 4, 2021 at 9:16am

J: Well from my research on this topic, what it appears to me is though, is as though, the New Testament gospels themselves maybe Roman forgeries, they maybe written in the first hundred years or so following the life of Christ, by people - Pliny the elder, the younger, possibly for the Peso family or the Augustinian emperors - as a means of propaganda to encourage people to succumb to imperialism by “turning the other cheek” and only using non-violence as a methodology. However I do believe also that the person of Jesus, or the character that the person in the New Testament was based on, was an actual living individual who did certain, that taught certain, certain Gnostic (I suppose one could say) beliefs 2000 years ago and may have used what could be considered today a form of magic - ritualist or ceremonial magic - to perform something that would be considered by subsequent believers as miracles. Miracles of healing as opposed to dark magic, but nevertheless; if you read, for example, the Babylonian Talmud, I believe, of the era, it describes this Yeshu and his trial as that of a magician who was using a name of god that he had gotten from an Egyptian temple to essentially break the Rabbinical laws that said you shouldn’t practice any form of spiritual act or healing practice even on Sabbaths, on Saturdays. So when he did that, they considered him a criminal, a black or dark wizard, tried him and put him to death and it was relatively unceremonious at the time. It didn’t make necessarily the biggest stir in the Roman Empire when a supposed terrorist from Judea was executed; it was not as big a deal even as when Usama Bin Laden was executed nowadays, because at the time, Jesus wasn’t even the greatest of the terrorist groups active in Judea. Judas Iscariot and the anti-Herodian Maccabeans were. But it seems to me that the original group of Jesus’ apostles and disciples were comprised of some members of the Essenes of Qumran, some members of the Sicarri assassins group of political terrorists, some members of basic Gnostic or Coptic philosophical and religious belief systems. For example, James the Just - there’s a lot of modern speculation that he was a brother by blood to Jesus, but I suspect that it was probably a half brother who had the same father but a different, or rather, who had the same mother but a different father. In the trial documents they compare Yeshu to someone who had been sired by a, well. In the Babylonian Talmud trial documents they describe Yeshu by comparing him to someone who had been sired by a foreigner on the wife of a high-priest. But this means either that Jesus himself was, similarly to that person, a bastard of a Roman soldier and the wife of, say, Shimeon Caiphas for example, is left open to interpretation. So it’s impossible to say with certainty, but there is a high degree of likelihood that Jesus was born from the rape of his mother by a Roman soldier; his mother was the wife of the high-priest of the Essene community at Qumran, who were the exiled high-priests from Jerusalem over the state of Israel that had become Judea. So when, if you look in the Bible, when Jesus was born, his parents fled with him into Egypt, he spent time there and supposedly, according to the Babylonian Talmud, stole the name of god from a temple there, and then when he returned, he returned to Qumran, and was unwelcome. They called him the “wicked priest” in their documents and said that James the Just, who was his half-brother, who was the rightful son of Jesus’ mother and Jesus’ step-father - who was the high-priest - they said James the Just was the rightful heir and Jesus was an upstart.

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